March 15, 2007

HRC: Homosexuality Is Not Immoral

Appearing on Bloomberg News, Sen. Hillary Clinton:

"Well I've heard from a number of my friends and I've certainly clarified with them any misunderstanding that anyone had, because I disagree with General Pace completely. I do not think homosexuality is immoral. But the point I was trying to make is that this policy of Don't Ask, Don't Tell is not working. I have been against it for many years because I think it does a grave injustice to patriotic Americans who want to serve their country. And so I have called for its repeal and I'd like to follow the lead of our allies like, Great Britain and Israel and let people who wish to serve their country be able to join and do so. And then let the uniform code of military justice determine if conduct is inappropriate or unbecoming. That's fine. That's what we do with everybody. But let's not be eliminating people because of who they are or who they love."

Posted at 02:38 PM

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Comments

She should have said something when her husband put the policy in place personally.

David | 03.15.07 02:52 PM

There goes that last remote chance that I vote for any ticket on which she serves. Amazing that politicians will say anything to get a vote.

Jeff Baehl | 03.15.07 02:54 PM

Apparently Hillary does disagree with her husband and they were not co-presidents

DJ | 03.15.07 02:54 PM

Interesting viewpoint Mrs. Bill Clinton! Why don't you just go ahead (while your at it) and explain why you have photos of yourself leaving church with a Bible in your hand with Bill? Have you ever cracked it open to see what your Maker says about the issue?

Chris | 03.15.07 02:59 PM

So, in not being an immoral act, does that make being homosexual a moral act?

Jon | 03.15.07 03:00 PM

Isn't DADT her husband's policy?

Jesse | 03.15.07 03:00 PM

My personal opinion about Hilary Clinton is the same that I have about Bill Clinton. Both are ego-centric, selffish and money hungry.

John Torres | 03.15.07 03:01 PM

This is perhaps the last straw for me, re Hillary. I get that she's trying to court "religious" voters. But not all religious voters are reactionary. Pace's comments gave her a perfect opening to talk about morality: the morality of sending our young off to war, the morality of abandoning those same young when they return mentally and physically maimed, the morality of a health care system that is run by and for drug companies, the morality of a world where people can't afford basic expenses, much less the cost of an education. Instead of tackling those or other "morality" issues, she dithered. This statement is nice, but why didn't she say it initially? I worry about a candidate who stands for what she believes only when faced with the fire of some of her most dedicated friends.

Barbara | 03.15.07 03:02 PM

What she is really saying:
Some of my friends are for it and some of my friends are against it. Therefore I stand with my friends.

William Gore | 03.15.07 03:03 PM

I wonder who the heck came up with that "Don't ask don't tell policy"?

jeff | 03.15.07 03:03 PM

Just don't let them get married, right Hillary?

terry broxson | 03.15.07 03:05 PM

So a politician made a non-comment, then finally gets called on it and releases a wordy semi-correction. Hmm, Must be election season.

cambel | 03.15.07 03:05 PM

Stop the presses!! We must now revise The Holy Bible because Hillary Robbem Clinton says homosexuality is not immoral. I wonder if she has notified God of this great edict? I'm sure she has because God would have surely concurred. What a load of crap. Someone please tell me this idiot has no chance of being elected President of the United States.

Jason Goode | 03.15.07 03:06 PM

"I do not think homosexuality is immoral."
And there you have it my friends - let's be perfectly clear - this candidate who wishes to be president considers homosexuality to be moral.

JD | 03.15.07 03:07 PM

One cannot point to Great Britain or Isreal to suggest how to run the greatest land and sea power the world has ever known. Especially on ships where men and women, in separate berthing areas, sleep 40-80 in one open bay area with dorm like showers. Sailors of the U.S. Navy live in spartan conditions while onboard their ships. It is easy for Senator Clinton to pontificate from her luxurious estate. Try living without "Don't ask, Don't tell," within 1,000 feet of 5,000 fellow sailors knowing that a certain number of homosexual sailors in you berthing area and not feel uncomfortable about it. It would be like telling the female sailors, "We are going to put you in a room with 3 males but don't worry, they'll be professional about it." It just will not work.

Mike | 03.15.07 03:07 PM

You Americans are so hung up on the homosexuality. In France we are so much less upright, how you say.

Jean-Claude | 03.15.07 03:08 PM

She came late to this position. Less than 10 hours ago she refused to answer this question directly! She said she would "leave it up to others" to decide what was immoral. Now she issues a hurried press release to "clarify" her remarks after she gets a ton of emails from the extreme left of her party.

Can anyone else see any "pandering" here?

laughingloudly | 03.15.07 03:08 PM

The "smartest woman in the world" has got it all wrong again. Homosexuality is immoral, and for one who purports to be a Christian, she certainly isn't familiar with the Bible which speaks to the immorality of this sin as well as others in the realm of sexuality. She's just trying to jump on the bandwagon with her other liberal friends. Meanwhile, I hghly respect the courage of General Pace, who has it right and has the integrity and honesty to speak the truth.

D. Jan Allen | 03.15.07 03:09 PM

First of all, who cares what Hillary "Rotten to the Core" Clinton says. It doesn't change what God says. Nowhere in the Bible does it say Homosexuality is Moral. I congratulate General Pace on his bravery and correct statement. This is the very reason we do not need First Lady Bill back in the White House, liberalism from hell.
Support Ron Paul for President, a man of character!

Jon Arthur | 03.15.07 03:09 PM

Obviously Hillary isn't anti-gay. Why anyone would accuse her and she needs to defend herself is beyond my belief. She is the one that selected Janet Reno and countless other gays and bisexuals to serve with distinction in the Clinton adminstration. As gay man myself I fully support Hillary! Closets are for Clothing!

S. Sparkenickle | 03.15.07 03:09 PM

Leviticus 18,22
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

OK, its not immoral... just an abomination.

Hey, Hillary, what about 'Thou shall not commit adultary'?

Bret | 03.15.07 03:09 PM

Oh Please! Only Immoral people will try to lie their way out of an Immoral act!

Jimmy Touchstone | 03.15.07 03:11 PM

Well it is now obvious that the Hillary Clinton doesn't know religion except the political kind. The bible clearly states that to put ones seed somewhere other then where it belongs is a sin and is forbidden by God. OOPS I said God and the democrats and bloody bleeding liberals want us to forget that this country was founded on the principels stated in the Bible, both King James and Catholic versions. I maybe wrong but you might find that the Koran also agrees. So again an amotal person wants to lead the country just like her husband did. I pray to God that it doesn't happen.

Douglas Holden | 03.15.07 03:11 PM

I can not believe that Hillary is against the don't ask, don't tell policy...if memory serves me correctly thats the policy that her husband proudly installed within the first few days of his presidency with wife Hillary standing by his side in full support of the policy

Lee | 03.15.07 03:12 PM

Is this the same Hillary Clinton that used to be married to President Bill Clinton?

Jim | 03.15.07 03:12 PM

She says "But let's not be eliminating people because of who they are or who they love."

So that means she should be FOR Gay Marriage! Afterall...marriage in the eyes of the LAW is a contract between 2 people.

Denying a couple legal standing based on sexual orientation is just plain Discrimination. If you truly believe in a seperation between Church and State...then same sex marriage should be LEGAL.

Chuck | 03.15.07 03:13 PM

Notice that she says, "let the uniform code of military justice determine if conduct is inappropriate or unbecoming." But homosexual acts are a violation of UCMJ. So she wouldn't chnage that, but would allow those with homosexual leanings in the military?

Rogue | 03.15.07 03:14 PM

this did it. i am thoroughly convinced what a hypocrite liar this woman is. to think she used the pulpit at some church and quote bible verses in attempting to score political points, and went on to ignore other part of the bible abt what God said abt homosexuality. does she think americans are dimwits? this woman proved that she has no values, she said what needs to be said to court different group of voters.

susan | 03.15.07 03:16 PM

that was a quick poll.

george fox | 03.15.07 03:16 PM

Hillary is immoral in her own regard. She is as flexible as Gumby if it suits her cause of the day. She has no morals and, therefore, can be no judge of immorality. Hillary should just admit that Obama has her by the short hairs and that she's old news. Cowtowing to every minority and promising more than she can ever deliver is her plan for '08. Save yourselves and wake up. Tell her to talk to the hand because the head ain't listening.

kp | 03.15.07 03:17 PM

It seems a bit of an over-reach for MS Clinton to contradict God. She seems to have no idea of the problems homosexuality brings upon a group of people.

Curt Pendergraft | 03.15.07 03:19 PM

Now she wants to repeal her own, er, her husband's policy! Ah, the ever changing shape-shifter, and I thought that was just science fiction!

Rene | 03.15.07 03:19 PM

So she is throwing her husband under the bus?

Arkansas Red | 03.15.07 03:19 PM

Give me a break. Not immoral? And I suppose what Monica did for Bill was OK too.

steve | 03.15.07 03:20 PM

SHE WILL SAY ANTHING TO GET ELECTED. A REAL FLIP FLOPER.

SKIP | 03.15.07 03:21 PM

Dear Senator:
Homosexuality is wrong. It is a sin.
Read your Bible Senator.
It was condemned by both Moses and St. Paul.
You and I are both United Methodists.
Our book of Discipline condemns homsexuality
while affirming the worth of homosexuals
as people and as precious souls.
Hooray for General Pace and shame on you
and Senator Warner.

Rev. James Allen | 03.15.07 03:21 PM

She is such a freaking fraud.

Robert | 03.15.07 03:22 PM

Just once I would like to have one politician stick to the truth of their conviction, and let the chips fall where they may, I for one would have more confidence in the integrity of the candidate, and maybe listen to other points of interest in their run for office...

Larry | 03.15.07 03:22 PM

Yes that is exactly right. I would never vote for Ms. Clinton, but on this she is right. What sort of body you love is not to be confused with when and where you love that body. The first is morally neutral, the second and third, as Ms. Clinton knows only too well, are never morally neutral.

James D. Carmine | 03.15.07 03:24 PM

Lets see, on one hand you have Hillary who as a politician is filled with moral authority. On the other hand you have the Bible. I hope someone can ask Hillary how if God says it is immoral, what she bases her claim on. Surely, if she has decided to ignore Gods word we wont be seeing her in anymore churchs with her southern draw.

David Smith | 03.15.07 03:26 PM

Just another example of Hillary playing politics and trying to cover up what she truly believes. It's amazing how liberals can have "misunderstandings" but conservatives can not.

Greg | 03.15.07 03:26 PM

It's hard to believe that our society is questioning weather or not gay sex and people that practice are immoral. We are on a downward spiral.

Jay | 03.15.07 03:26 PM

There is a reason we have superior army over our allies... war is for only winning and killing... not being politically correct.

Dave Riffey | 03.15.07 03:27 PM

Well, I've glad Hillary is finally on record as supporting deviancy. That should make the election selection a bit easier.

WILLIAM HOFMEISTER | 03.15.07 03:28 PM

this is what we have running for president. we all should think twice when voting for people with this mine set.

joseph cook | 03.15.07 03:31 PM

If it is not immoral, what is it?

I am guessing that since he husband tried to redefine "is" Mrs. Clinton is trying to define "moral."

Kevin | 03.15.07 03:32 PM

I'm so glad that Hillary has clarified this. I am a supporter that would have a big issue with Hillary if her views were contrary to this statement. Go Hillary!!!!!!

Vince Oropesa | 03.15.07 03:33 PM

Is there anyone she won't pander to?

Chip | 03.15.07 03:34 PM

Wonder if Hillary thinks adultery is immoral? Considering who she's married to, probably not.

Yephora | 03.15.07 03:34 PM

To find out what HC believes depends on which poll she is watching. So what is new with the Clintons.

Rouse70 | 03.15.07 03:34 PM

Hypocrisy thy name is Clinton.

I should consider voting for her because of what "he" brings to the table and what he brought to the table was "don't ask, don't tell" and now she says it doesn't work yet offers nothing in return.

"I Loathe" Hillary Clinton

Ron Berquist | 03.15.07 03:35 PM

Wish this woman would crawl in a hole and leave American politcs alone. She's worse than bill..

concerned American | 03.15.07 03:36 PM

You need to learn about, like, comma splices if'n you want to be taken seriously.

Dazer | 03.15.07 03:40 PM

Homosexuality is not immoral? You certainly won't be getting my vote, Sen. Clinton! My Bible explicitly says that it is immoral, which means that: A) you have never read the Bible; or B) you just don't care what the Bible says. Either way, that is not what I want from my President.

JPL | 03.15.07 03:40 PM

Well .. it would seem that Hilary disagrees with Jesus Christ. And has the nerve to walk into a "christian church" on sundays to ease her conscience and try to appease the mainline voters.
Typical liberal.

Bob | 03.15.07 03:42 PM

Sure, it is always a good idea to follow another socially bankrupt countries liberal ideas, right down the proverbial drain...I have no interest in the U.S. copying ANYONE else's agenda, other countries can be more like us, and more successful, we should not be trying to destroy ourselves from wtihin.

Paul Bennett | 03.15.07 03:42 PM

Gee, how is she going to explain (lie) her way out of this one? Eventually, she will find herself in a conservative church that preaches Biblical truth, pandering for votes, probably using one of her condescending fake accents like before. She will tell the church about her Christian beliefs, and will be forced to tell the crowd that she agrees with God's word - all except for those several parts that reference homosexuality as a detestable sin. In that case, she will have to say that God is wrong and she is right. This should make for great television.

Mike Garcia | 03.15.07 03:43 PM

The problem here is which Hillary are we to believe? Hillary the Christian or Hillary the Pro Gay Movement embracer? The Hillary who's from Arkansas or the Hillary who's from New York? Her whole "being" is a lie and she's becoming slicker than her Hubby "Slick Willie". This woman is worthy of no one's trust.

Jim Frazer | 03.15.07 03:44 PM

Typical Hillary - following the polls. It his country polls don't matter - we live in a REPUBLIC.

Bob | 03.15.07 03:45 PM

"Homosexuality is Not Immoral"
Like the Clintons are "Not Immoral".

Wiseman | 03.15.07 03:46 PM

I think Hillary should stop pandering to everyone and discuss some real issues truthfully

marianne | 03.15.07 03:48 PM

It was the Clinton administration that instituted "Don't ask, don't tell." Was Hillary against it then, or is this just another example of something the Clintons did that didn't work?

Have Memory | 03.15.07 03:48 PM

This woman is such a fraud and she will change her spots to suit whoever it is she is pandering to at the time.

Raydog | 03.15.07 03:48 PM

I guess the question is which Bible does HRC claim to recognize. It is obviously not the Christian Bible.

M.L. Mitchell | 03.15.07 03:49 PM

Bingo. Do we need it to be made any clearer. America has a problem with its people. We as American's does not have a problem with America.

Littleman | 03.15.07 03:51 PM

She'll be all things to all people so as to fool some people if she can.

Lynn | 03.15.07 03:52 PM

How very sad that we are at the place in our country that it's a crime to share one's convictions like Pete Pace and then come under fire. Freedom of speech and freedom of religious expression are no longer tolerated and we must apologize. Our country has certainly lost its moral compass and tolerance for other's convictions and beliefs.

Kay | 03.15.07 03:53 PM

Hillary should be right up to date witn immorality: she lives with him daily.

Clyde Hogg | 03.15.07 03:53 PM

This lady will say anything to get elected. Don't buy anything she's selling... you get robbed.

Diggety | 03.15.07 03:54 PM

What does she think morality is?

Seems pretty silly of her to break off from the vast majority of Americans by saying it's not immoral.

She'd have done better to just say it's not the government's place to dictate morality - which would still be wrong in the case of the military - but at least she wouldn't have alienated her self even further from the average American (Something I never would have believed possible...)

Patrick McCullough | 03.15.07 03:54 PM

While I agree with Hillary on this one issue (as much as it pains me to admit), I hope she remembers that this policy that she has supposeldy opposed for years was her Husband's policy.

Ron | 03.15.07 03:57 PM

"let people who wish to serve their country be able to join and do so. And then let the uniform code of military justice determine if conduct is inappropriate or unbecoming. That's fine. "

Unfortunately Hill, the UCMJ defines homosexuality as immoral deviant behavior detrimental to unit cohesion and is still punishible by jail and a dishonorable discharge.

Which is supposedly what instituting Don't ask Don't tell was supposed to address. We don't ask if you're gay so you can join, and you don't tell us your gay so we don't kick you out (or punish you).

So we are back to square one on this - nearly 15 years after you "addressed" it. Thank you for your superb leadership - we are still pondering the basic question and you are still giving meaningless sound bites for answers. Hip-Hip - Blech!!!

My solution - let anyone who wants to serve, do so. Anyone that DOESN'T like it can get out. You will see attitudes and relations fostered and changed accordingly when you are in an institution that judges on merit of character rather than "color" or grouping (be it black, brown, purple or rainbow.... or whatever)

Arch | 03.15.07 03:58 PM

Since when would a Clinton know anything about morals?

mike | 03.15.07 03:58 PM

Morality should be objective not subjective, if morality is whatever one beleives, then there is no morality. you would not have to go back very many years to find 99% of people asked would say homosexuality is Imoral. What has changed? the fact or the perception.

Rich | 03.15.07 03:58 PM

Heh. Hillary is at it again - politcailly good now

omeca | 03.15.07 03:58 PM

My understanding is that "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" changed the uniform code of military justice. Also, the uniform code of military justice states that adultery is "illegal" in the military. So, let's appease the homosexual people so we can get their campaign contributions and votes!

Phil Green | 03.15.07 04:01 PM

As usual, Hillary doesn't know what she is talking about. I am in total agreement with General Pace. Homosexual acts are totally immoral. I served in the U.S. Military.

Dean | 03.15.07 04:02 PM

Don't tell us how to run our military, Billiary... You've never even served. We are here for one purpose - to kill people and break things. To destroy those who would destroy us. We are not here for your social tinkering.

Mike | 03.15.07 04:03 PM

It's about time, Hillary. Don't think we aren't watching. Our people are still being beaten to death in the streets by religous extremists, while they have the nerve to claim that the slightest criticism of their oppressive biblical opinion amounts to censorship. If they are going to start playing the victim as well as liberals used to, that's fine with us, so long as we cease to be the real victims, paying with our lives. Pace's comments were disresepctful to the 65,000 gays are lesbians who are *already serving* in the military, including heroes like Eric Alva. Don't hesitate next time, Hillary. Do you want our votes or not?

EntireGayCommunity | 03.15.07 04:03 PM

is this another joke that went bad???

rsmith | 03.15.07 04:05 PM

It is good to know where Senator Clinton stands on the practice of homosexuality.

eddie | 03.15.07 04:05 PM

Anyone who claims to be a Bible believer, cannot have it both ways. The Bible isnot a box of chocolates one gets to choose only what fits their agenda. If Hillary truly believes that it is not immoral, then she should take it up with God and stop playing politics.

Gil | 03.15.07 04:05 PM

Pander, Pander, Pander...Good job Mrs. Bill Clinton!

Dan | 03.15.07 04:07 PM

flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop

John Kerry | 03.15.07 04:10 PM

She will do anything for a vote.

Connie | 03.15.07 04:11 PM

Well with that reasoning...Was Bill Clinton's conduct, while serving as president, conduct unbecoming????? YOU BET IT WAS

suzanne | 03.15.07 04:12 PM

Well, why didn't she say that in the first place?
If there had not been so much backlash about her comment she quite possibly would have remained silent.
She gives the strong impression that she's hedging her bets; that doesn't instill alot of confidence, does it?

Ramón Burgos-Ruíz | 03.15.07 04:12 PM

Hillary must have never read what God's word in The Bible says about homosexuality. Maybe it was an "inconvenient truth" for her.

Ohio Bill | 03.15.07 04:13 PM

Good thing morality is not defined by Hillary. It's what God says, not what man thinks, that matters.

Ned Schnittt | 03.15.07 04:13 PM

Several larger issues would have to be clarified for homosexuals to serve openly in the military.

First, national recognition of gay marriage, civil unions, whatever you call it would have to occur. This would allow a homosexual servicemember to have dependents and draw the same pay and healthcare benefits for their loved ones as anybody else.

Second, power of attorneys and wills to allow your loved one to pull the plug or receive SGLI benefits would have to be established.

Bottom line is that until a homosexual does not need a lawsuit to get the benefits available to every other servicemember this is a no-go from the start. The United States Congress and people have a lot more to work out before Don't Ask Dont Tell is changed.

This is completely different than the integration of services under President Truman that is so often cited as an example.

Anthony Cassino | 03.15.07 04:14 PM

Well we know where she stands. Someone tells me that she is a member of a Methodist Church. I guess she just read doesn't read her Bible.

grabbag | 03.15.07 04:16 PM

No moral compass

david bryson, Sr. | 03.15.07 04:16 PM

This is the most irritating person I have ever seen.

Robert | 03.15.07 04:16 PM

That, my friends, is the sound of a flip-flop. Is Kerry advising her already??

jeff | 03.15.07 04:17 PM

That is about as stupid as "I actuall voted for the war before I voted against it".

Doug Clark | 03.15.07 04:20 PM

Hillary, I love you!

ps) As to the issue of homosexuality being "immoral"; what is the first commandment? "thou shalt not kill", with NO caveats or asterisks. So, General Pace, being in charge of an organization that is specifically charged with destroying societies and killing human beings, saying that he thinks you can't have homosexuals in the military because it is immoral, well, THAT is just laughable.

mike | 03.15.07 04:20 PM

We're going to have to endure two yrs of this? Gawd.

KC | 03.15.07 04:21 PM

I bet she would have had a different answer when she was in front of the black congregation last week! What a chameleon! This woman will say anything! She's up in arms about 8 US prosectuors being fired by Bush when her husband fired all 93! Liberalism is a mental disorder!

joney | 03.15.07 04:22 PM

It's funny that Sen. Clinton says she's been opposed to Don't Ask Don't Tell. After all, it was her husband's administration that implemented the policy. According to Hillary, she was involved in practically every decision her husband made while in office. Something doesn't add up here...

Chris | 03.15.07 04:24 PM

Hillary - prepare to loose any serious practicing Christian voted you thought you once had. I thought you were Catholic.

Craig | 03.15.07 04:25 PM

Mrs. Clinton, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You cannot cater your "Christian credentials" while at the same time declaring homosexuality moral. The Bible is very explicit that it is a sin. Of course this is the doubletalk that the Clintons are known for.

I'm not saying we should treat homosexuals with contempt in any way- simply you cannot call yourself a Christian and consider homosexuality a moral act and lifestyle.

Andy | 03.15.07 04:27 PM

Why do I get nervous when a politician is a sked a "yes/no" question, answers it in a 3-page 11 paragraph response and then for the next 3 days has to issue repeated press releases explaining what they really meant when they were asked that "yes/no" question?

Casey Serin | 03.15.07 04:27 PM

Of course... this comes from someone who DID NOT serve. Serve first, and then I will listen to your comments. Until then...

keelhaul | 03.15.07 04:28 PM

No one care Hill. You showed your true colours today by admitting you would leave troops in Iraq.

Toby | 03.15.07 04:31 PM

If someone asks her if she thinks homosexual acts are immoral, the answer will probably be quite different - unless she's as shameless a liar as I suspect she is.

Jackie Danicki | 03.15.07 04:33 PM

Typical Clinton flip-flop like Kerry. Say or do anything that gets you over the hurdle. God, she's sickeningly ambitious!

augie busso | 03.15.07 04:34 PM

The focus group couldn't have said it better.

Tom | 03.15.07 04:40 PM

I second Sen. Hillary R. Clinton's motion.

Pauls | 03.15.07 04:44 PM

BEEEEP- Wrong answer, but keep playing the game.

bob graham | 03.15.07 04:46 PM

Edwards is the man - he stands up for nationalized health care and has the guts to speak his mind - something obama, hillary and the rest of the republican wannabees can't do - a former navy officer, medical doctor and informed citizen who is sick and tired of worthless politicians.

Craig M. Uhl | 03.15.07 04:48 PM

Israel doesn't "allow" anyone who wants to serve to serve. They "require" everyone to serve. You would think that someone running for president would know that. Or maybe she does and wants to make military service manditory.

TJ | 03.15.07 04:49 PM

I am so sick of the right and the religious zealots make homosexuality a moral issue. It's a lifestyle that needs to be accepted in a changing world where the 'sanctity' of marriage has a 50% divorce rate here in the US. Gay men are usually not pedophiles-they are dedicated partners-at least from the ones I work with and know. I go to church and have to listen to apologies about priests molesting boys, settling lawsuits, parish bankruptcies, proest shortages and no one wanting to serve time in the military. The world is changing. Doesn't the bible say Jesus and God love ALL their children? Doesn't that apply to those who don't look like us or share similar lifestyles? YES at least in my understanding of the religious faith. Exasperating!

Victor | 03.15.07 04:51 PM

Is it considered 'piling on' here to mention those billing records again?

Mike | 03.15.07 04:53 PM

What does the bible have to do with whether or not someone serves in the military? I've never read one word that says an able body person of the appropriate age is precluded in fighting. Pick an argument.

Patsy | 03.15.07 04:54 PM

Who said that Obama, Clinton, or any politician has the authority to declare something immoral or not? Doesn't that fall under the jurisdiction of somebody with the moral authority to define moral - like God?

Frank | 03.15.07 04:55 PM

Thank God she doesn't have a snowball's chance of becoming our next Commander in Chief.

GT | 03.15.07 04:56 PM

are you people all nuts? one, you want her to automatically and mindlessly agree with all of her husband's policies, and not have her own thoughts? two, since most research agrees homosexuality is not a choice but genetic, how can something one is BORN with be open to questions of immorality? are green eyes immoral? left-handedness? you people seem to hate homosexuals as much as islamofascists do -- which is ironic, since the islamic hatred of homosexuals is what made it possible for us to recruit a few (gay) arabic speakers to work as translators, etc, with our military. but because of DADT we lost almost all of them.

paul | 03.15.07 04:58 PM

Hillary Clinton's interpretation of her "faith" has nothing to do with right and wrong, but with whatever is politically expedient. She's not impressing anyone by pandering two all sides all the time.

Terrence | 03.15.07 04:58 PM

Give the girl a pair of flip-flops.

Bill | 03.15.07 05:00 PM

If anything, Ms. Clinton is not strong enough in her rebuke of the General. That doesn't make her wrong. The military is not a moral organization; it's goal is to protect the country from physical harm, not moral harm, or policing thoughts, or even policing at all. It protects from foreign threats. There is no reason in that job description why homosexuals can not serve in our military. It doesn't make them any less capable of fighting, or protecting. And to tell you the truth, if you have to put up with bigotry every day of your life and you still come out stable, then that says something about your toughness. But that's my opinion.

Peter | 03.15.07 05:00 PM

how does this jibe with clinton's Defense OF Marriage Act?

I think clinton's "don't ask, don't tell" dovetails perfectly with his "deny deny deny" policy...

dev rios | 03.15.07 05:01 PM

Hillary should not push her moral point of view on me!

Roger | 03.15.07 05:01 PM

Ms. Hillary "well I ain't noways tired" Clinton is clearly not tired of feeding you all the bull you can handle. Well I AM WAY tired of all her hipocracy. Now the question remains, how gulible is the US population - guess we'll see.

Derik | 03.15.07 05:03 PM

One of the few things I agree with Mrs. Clinton on. Although a Republican I could care less what people do in their love lives.

Eric | 03.15.07 05:03 PM

1) Don't Ask; Don't Tell was a step forward from Do Ask; Don't Let Serve.

2) Being a homosexual is different than engaging in homosexual acts.

3) I believe the willing and qualified should be given the opportunity to serve and that the Military services should continue to enforce standard discipline (like prosecuting adulterers).

4) G-d help me, I'd agree with her on this one.

5) All of that being said, there's still no possibility that I'd vote for her.

Juls | 03.15.07 05:03 PM

Who knows if Hillary will follow through on eliminating "Don't ask, don't tell" if she gets elected. But in the meantime, if bravery is a prerequisite for serving in the U.S. military, then why do the old men in the Pentagon and the majority in Congress display such cowardice about homosexuals serving openly in the military? Do they actually believe that the majority of today's heterosexual soldiers, sailors, marines and air(wo)men are brave enough to fight in battle but at the same time too emotionally wimpish to knowingly work and bathe along side lesbians and gays, just as their predecessors thought the majority of white soldiers were too cowardly to serve along side black soldiers prior to the end of WWII?

And as for you theocratically-inclined posters, theological arguments against homosexuality and homosexuals in the military are irrelevant.

indioheathen | 03.15.07 05:04 PM

It is about time someone got it right.
Hilary is the best choice for this country in 08.

Why are Americans so afraid of homosexuality?
If they took their nose out of their bible
and stick it in history books and geography books,
and world literature maybe Americans would be
a more sophisticated, and learned people.

james | 03.15.07 05:07 PM

Who needs Comedy Central as long as we have the 2008 Presidential campaign!!!

Paul | 03.15.07 05:08 PM

SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!

Outraged | 03.15.07 05:09 PM

Doesn't Leviticus say that eating shellfish is an abomination? Leviticus also tells us ""...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material." Was Hillary wearing a cotton blend when she made her pro-gay remark? A better question: Are you Fundamentalists just being selective in your interpretation of the good book?

Heraldblog | 03.15.07 05:10 PM

Perhaps it is the vast right-wing conspiracy who is making her think this way and she will correct it tomorrow when the polls come out!!!

fred | 03.15.07 05:11 PM

Hilary who?

Luzin Hope | 03.15.07 05:12 PM

Check what she said closely. GEN Pace said that homosexual "acts" are immoral and he is correct --- totally. Billary said that "homosexuality" is immoral. Again, here she is setting herself up to remaing vaguely in the middle of both sides.

Edcclub | 03.15.07 05:13 PM

Wow - the collective IQ of the majority of these posters wouldn't threaten to break double-digits.

It's always nice to get a reminder of the hate, vitriol, prejudice, stupidity, intolerance and bigotry that reside under the placid face of the American hinterlands. Please -- go populate your own theocracy somewhere else. How about Iraq?

Johnny H | 03.15.07 05:17 PM

John 18:28; Acts 10:28; 11:3

Abomination is not the same as against the laws of God. The Bible also says in the above references that it is an abomination to eat and drink with foreigners.

Marc | 03.15.07 05:17 PM

What is it with this woman...can't we just all "chip-in" and buy her a library of her own so that she would just GO-AWAY???

Den Guy | 03.15.07 05:17 PM

hahahaha... this is too funny. You can count on Liberals to be as slippery as jello. Hillary makes a non-comment, receives some nasty messages from her Far Left constituents, then tries to slide further to their position, without alientating the moral majority on the right of the political spectrum. When power is sought for power's sake, and no principles are enunciated, it's hard to keep track of what your position is. As Lincoln said: "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

Bill | 03.15.07 05:18 PM

aren't the words moral and clinton..(either clinton)..mutually exclusive? how can people with no moral's speak of morality?

tom | 03.15.07 05:19 PM

As a Christian, I believe that what God finds more unsavory than human sexuality issues are His children when they're being judgemental and mean-spirited towards people they disagree with. When Jesus showed anger, it was towards the self-righteous religious establishment, and in my opinion the "Christian Right" has comfortably assumed that position. I think it's fine if someone chooses a different set of values than a public figure, but recognize that the morality of Christianity is a path we've chosen to follow, not something to be forced on those who think otherwise.

mgbesq | 03.15.07 05:20 PM

I am a Christian and God never said Homosexuality was immoral. God never even said it was an abomination. That was a man that wrote that. If you believe in the holy trinity, Jesus was God and never said a word about homsexuality. He said a lot about divorce, not hurting each other (war!) and a lot of other stuff that you hypocrits forget about. He will judge us all. Not any one of you posting here.

Thom | 03.15.07 05:24 PM

This woman has no morality, no principles -- no opinions even -- apart from what she believes will get her elected.

If Hillary were running for office in New Guinea, she'd endorse cannibalism.

brineyman | 03.15.07 05:25 PM

Why can't you just mind your own business and let those who choose to serve their country with great honor do just that. Sexual preference has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with it. Do us all a favor and keep your far right Christian hatred out of public service.

cmmc | 03.15.07 05:27 PM

If you go and actually read the bible, like some of these posters have suggested, you will find that it depends on who is interpreting it from the original language as to what it actually says on the subject. There is no term in the original Hebrew that means homosexual. The bible authors didn't understand it and therefore didn't write about it or condemn it. What they did write about and condemn was exploitative and manipulative sex. Just remember, the bible has also been used to condemn slavery, eating meat on Friday, lying with a woman during her period, war, interfaith marriages, and not rotating your crops.

Bubba | 03.15.07 05:27 PM

To Jean-Claude who said France is much less uptight about homosexuality: The French supreme court just a few days ago outlawed same-sex marriage.

Ron H | 03.15.07 05:28 PM

Either she stands for homosexuality or not, for a person in a publicly scrutinized positioned to stand for homosexuality in away has got my vote.

Paul Downing | 03.15.07 05:28 PM

As I recall, newly elected President Clinton wanted to open the ranks completely to gays. The only reason he went for DADT was because every active duty Marine Corps General threatened to submit their
retirement papers on the spot. Come on Billary, get over it.

John Davis | 03.15.07 05:32 PM

I admire the courage of Gen. Pace. I hope he gets discharged and runs as the Republican nominee. :) God knows the republicans are in desperate need of a leader who stands on moral conviction!

John Coroama | 03.15.07 05:34 PM

keep talking lady, all the way back to New York.

Viva Bush y Viva Rudy....

brian | 03.15.07 05:35 PM

Jesus never said a word about homsexuality,
but I am sure he would have something
to say about the pure hatred reflected
in these comments.

Tim | 03.15.07 05:37 PM

I agree with Hillary and those who think it is not immoral; and don't bother quoting the Bible to me because in my opinion it reflects the prejudices of the time and of the men who wrote it.

June | 03.15.07 05:37 PM

So typical of SO many "Christians" - According to your own Savior, you standing in judgement of gays makes you as much of a sinner as you believe them to be.

Joshua | 03.15.07 05:38 PM

Mike..the first commandment says "Thou shall have no other gods before me". While the 6th does say, "Thou shalt not kill", scholars have shown that the word, 'kill', in this instance, means 'murder'. Believe it or not, there is a distinct difference. Check your Webster's.

Jim | 03.15.07 05:39 PM

The Bible is not the US Constitution. It doesn't matter what the Bible says about homosexuality. Might as well see what the owner's manual of a Kenmore washing machine says about it, for all the relevance to American society it has.

Titus Pullo | 03.15.07 05:41 PM

The Bible, the Bible, the Bible! You people use that as the basis of your social arguments but really only pick and chose those parts of the Bible that fit your own warped view of how things should be in your eyes.

I mean...I bet the whole lot of you wouldn't even THINK of banning the play of football. After all, your dear book of Leviticus says touching the ball makes one unclean.

Gimme a break!

Wayne | 03.15.07 05:44 PM

For those intent upon pulling out their Bible, let's not forget that it also says that divorce is not recognized by God. So, were the Reagans immoral? The religious right has destroyed the Republican party.

doug | 03.15.07 05:44 PM

the military is not the place for political experimintation.

LEO | 03.15.07 05:45 PM

All you need is love, all you need is love, all you need is love, love, love is all you need.

dan | 03.15.07 05:45 PM

Heaven forbid that men in the military will have to live with what women already live with every day - being sexually objectified and the object of the gaze. Not that there aren't already plenty of gay men in the military now.

Melissa | 03.15.07 05:46 PM

To the person above that mentioned "seperation of Church and State". Show me in the Constitution where Seperation of Church and State is written. It says that there will be no State run Church. It has nothing to do with "seperation".

Drew | 03.15.07 05:47 PM

Thank you Senator Clinton. You have taken the correct stand against ignorant, superstitious, bible-banging idiots.

Charles Roesch | 03.15.07 05:52 PM

Totally gutless. It she felt like that she should have said something years ago when her husband's administration implemented the policy. She's the comsummate opportunist.

Rose Santos Garcia | 03.15.07 05:52 PM

It seems to me that Hillary is now saying what she really believes - homosexuality is not immoral. I agree with her and I am Christian. I thought less of her and Obama when they wouldn't say whether they think homosexuality is immoral - come on, you know they don't think it's immoral.

erivcvfsu | 03.15.07 05:56 PM

How can we still say that we live in a free country? How can we say with a straight face that we have civil rights and civil liberties? Homosexuals are still human beings, they are still Americans. Yet they are denied so much and ridiculed. It stuns me that we will spend so much time fighting about the right's of our countries homosexual residents. If a person is of sound mind and legal age, the goverment has NO right to say they can't marry just because they are the same sex. Religon and politics do NOT belong together. This conservitive country needs to get a grip on somethings before that whole "free country" thing dissapears.

ek-phx | 03.15.07 05:56 PM

Translated: Snap polls came in last night and I get more votes for saying it isn't immoral than I do the other way around, so here's my final answer.

James | 03.15.07 05:58 PM

Hillary is not Bill. Years gone bye people said that she was running the White House when Bill was president. Amazing how well she did even while the politicians wouldn't stop crucifying the whole time Bill was in office.

M.H. | 03.15.07 06:00 PM

All you bible thumpers out there really make me laugh! Just because you were "raised" or "taught" to be a Christian just means that you cannot think for yourselves or explore with an open mind what the "truth" really is. No one knows for sure, but I certainly see Christian values concerning homosexuality as hateful and mean. I'm better than that!

Clark | 03.15.07 06:02 PM

Never ask, never tell and never vote for Hillary.

bigmike | 03.15.07 06:02 PM

Additionally, most of the Christians here think that EVERYONE should believe as they do, that this country is 100% Christian, and if we were live by the bible, everything would be - So. Much. Better. Have you looked across the pond to see how countries that live by their 'magic book' are doing? Have you seen what fundamental religiously led countries are like? Hello? Iran? Iraq? Theocracies fail every single time... people, the U.S. is a FREE country, ruling this land by your Bible does NOT make it free, it makes it a horror. Think about it. Oh, right most Christian can't think beyond their 'book'...

bigredd | 03.15.07 06:07 PM

What happened to the Rodham name Hillary so proudly used while being Mrs. president. It fits her character; the current exclusive use of the Clinton name is to further her ambition. This woman is like a snake; she keeps on shedding any identity previously shown. I simply do not and never will trust her.

JT | 03.15.07 06:09 PM

Hillary always lives up to my expectations of a liberal politician in an election cycle.

Remember what she said: "I'm in it to win it." If Hillary and her handlers believe statement "X" will bring her more votes than the opposite of "X" then she WILL make statement "X". It's just that simple. Truth, integrity, and character do not pull the Clinton train, they are the caboose.

LeadMan9 | 03.15.07 06:09 PM

Don't you understand that these politicians, all of them with both parties care nothing about the people or the various issues other that can it get them "power". That is the u;timate goal for all of them, to be in power. And, to get there, they will spend as much as they have to and say whatever they think we the people(not that they care what we the people really think or feel) want to hear. As long as it gains them the ultimate rush...power.

Mike | 03.15.07 06:11 PM

Think about this…Isn’t the don’t ask don’t tell policy immoral not being open about your orientation. The immoral ones are the policy makers who rely, and encourage men and woman to lie, be deceitful and make false statements to serve their country?

Don Norte | 03.15.07 06:13 PM

I am an officer on active duty in the Navy. However my remarks are to be intended as those of a private citizen with experience in the military. My first years in the military in the 60's the unwritten code of conduct was that while in uniform at work one was not to engage in conversation concerning woman, religion, or politics. Those rules in my opinion are still good policy today. They are meant to leave topics of PERSONAL OPINIONS AND PERSONAL REFERENCES private and left at the door in order to concentrate on the business at hand. What one does after hours is private but kept out of the work place(and as a senior officer I don't particularly care what you do after work in terms of these preferences). I would but change one word, SEX, RELIGION, AND POLITICS, instead of woman, religion or politics.

RLH

Richard L. Hamilton | 03.15.07 06:13 PM

Not only was Don't Ask Don't Tell Bill's policy, it was the very first act of his presidency. If Hillary thought it was such a bad idea then, don't you think she would have had some influence to stop it?

Bill | 03.15.07 06:14 PM

I would be proud to serve with Gen. Pace. Please General stay with your convictions. Amen

marine | 03.15.07 06:15 PM

The men and women of the United States Armed Forces are expected to be of the highest character of the country. And they undergo screenings that weed out the under qualified. Personally, I do believe that homosexuality is immoral. And the military is based on morals. With that being said, we start letting homosexuals into the service we might as well start letting the prisoners from this ongoing war into the military. Some may say that it is two different stories. Point being, if someone commits a single immoral act, how can you expect them to uphold the morals in every other aspect?

Jim | 03.15.07 06:18 PM

It is so sad that Clinton and Obama, who are transparently blowin' in the wind here (testing the waters before they dare to offer moral opinions), still show more spine than any of the other so-called leaders of the GOP or the Dems. Bush's morality has always been vaporware, and I don't believe he cares about homosexuality beyond its ability to rally his gibbering horde of bigots, but he will never, ever show the kind of courage Clinton and Obama just have. For an encore, let's see someone with true guts propose repealing the monumentally discriminatory "Defense of Marriage" Act.

John | 03.15.07 06:18 PM

First we had SLICK WILLY----

Now we have SLICK HILLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

C.H. Francis | 03.15.07 06:19 PM

"And then let the uniform code of military justice determine if conduct is inappropriate or unbecoming."

What then? The next step is to trump military justice with some lawsuit of discrimination?
It's what hillery doesn't say that's the most bothersome.

Onkey | 03.15.07 06:23 PM

So Hillary says to let the UCMJ determine if the "behavior/conduct is inappropriate or unbecoming."
Well, well, it appears she is not very familiar with the UCMJ to make such a comment. The UCMJ deems homosexual acts as illegal. So I guess she'd rather have them thrown in jail rather than serve while "not telling."

Nellie | 03.15.07 06:26 PM

This is what General Pace said.

"I believe that homosexual acts between individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts"

"As an individual, I would not want (acceptance of gay behavior) to be our policy, just like I would not want it to be our policy that if we were to find out that so-and-so was sleeping with somebody else's wife, that we would just look the other way, which we do not. We prosecute that kind of immoral behavior,"

I have posted an excellent piece by Dominican Father Gabriel B. O’Donnell. regarding homosexuality vs homosexual acts. I believe General Pace holds the same perspective.

Hillary and Obama are misquoting General Pace.
What's new about that?

See my post at: http://mcmxxxii.blogspot.com/

Quintus Arius | 03.15.07 06:33 PM

As with everything Hillary says, read the words and interpret the meaning: she said "let everyone in" and then says let the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) take care of the rest. So, you eliminate Don't Ask, Don't Tell, all the gays join the military openly, THEN the UCMJ (which still considers homosexual activity a crime and ground for discharge)discharges them for their actions. Classic Clinton--let someone else clean up the mess you make by pandering to the voters.

Gordon | 03.15.07 06:36 PM

When asked to choose between God and Bill, she chose...?

Will it be Bill or her friends who decide her policies...?

Any politician that bets on ignorance and short memory from their constituents to get votes should be ashamed.

2centsworth | 03.15.07 06:42 PM

Why is it you so-called Christians go bonkers when the topic of homosexuality comes up and you run and hide behind your bible in a shameful attempt to attack your fellow man or woman? Who are you to judge? Do you ever actually read that bible as a whole and not just selectively so as to try and justify your inbred backward baseless beliefs and sad stereotypes? I detest Hillary but I detest hate-filled hypocrites even more. May God bless you because you clearly need it far more than the average harmless homosexual.

Inquiring Mind | 03.15.07 06:48 PM

Ever wonder why Democrats need constant validation of their opinions from Europe? It's because they have no basis for their values other than human consensus. In their eyes, one who stands alone must necessarily be wrong. Not only opinions, but even religious beliefs must be modified to "keep up with the times". As if there's no reason to believe anything unless it's the "modern" (and hence "progressive") thing to believe. The idea of believing something because it's true. And because it has always been true, and always will be true is anathema to them. Meanwhile they stand ready and willing to follow human consensus into the depths of hell.

Erik | 03.15.07 06:48 PM

General Pace for president!!!!!!!!!!!!

June Stolz | 03.15.07 06:49 PM

Can't believe it - is Hilary really such a know-nothing on military matters. She says gays should be let in and just follow the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The UCMJ specifically prohibits sodomy, which by definition homosexual sex falls into. Of course, why should she be expected to know what the UCMJ says? Shes only on the SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITEE!!

Tom Armstrong | 03.15.07 06:50 PM

Don't we have more important things to worry about than what people do in their bedrooms?

Trina | 03.15.07 06:50 PM

Really guys? Our country has so much on our plate already that we feel the need to bash poiticians for not even gay rights, but the way they refer to homosexuals? Of couse politicians arent going to be outright rude to a major part of the voting population, even if they feel that way. Maybe we should take a cue from them, rudeness is no way for adults to behave regardless of feeling, you don't go up to your boss and call him names when you disagree. You shouldn't act like that in day to day life either. Shame on you.

Robin | 03.15.07 06:51 PM

What and GeeDub is any better? He just waffled on whether he'd veto "hate speech" legislation. Pray for spiritual revival in this nation.

Bruce E | 03.15.07 06:57 PM

Yeah it is immoral. But killing people is Gods work.

Jim Ross | 03.15.07 06:58 PM

I can't take her two-faced pandering anymore, theres no way I can see any reason for this woman diserving my vote.

lupin | 03.15.07 06:58 PM

Ah, yes. A return to the good old days of governing based on polls. Remember when we didn't know what the president would do or say until a week or so after the poll results were in? So much more like a leader than the guy we have now, who is so predictable.

Pablo | 03.15.07 06:58 PM

As a gay man who supports Obama, my feeling until yesterday was that I would vote for her if she got the nomination. Not now. She did the triangulation dance in hopes of courting more conservative voters. In the end, it didn't work and she had to say what she should have said in the first place, but with strength and conviction in her voice. Instead, she ended up saying it and looking weak. Note to Hillary: the conservatives you are trying to court respect strength of character. Even if they disagree with you, they are more likely to be supportive if they see that you will at least stand for your convictions. Now you have lost them because of weakness of position, and the position itself. And in the process, lost many of your glbt supporters. Way to go! What a leader!!

Keith | 03.15.07 07:01 PM

I'm still amazed at the amount of ignorance and homophobia that still exists in this day and age. I'm also amazed how religious everyone instantly becomes when homosexuality to mentioned. Here's a dollar, buy a clue.

n2styx | 03.15.07 07:01 PM

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" served a purpose back in 1993. It no longer serves that purpose anymore, which was to stop denying gay Americans the right to defend the country that they love. Lots have changed in 14 years and society is coming around, rightly so, towards acceptance. The vast majority of our military realizes that gay people can pull a trigger just like straight people; and love and allegiance for this country is not uniquely heterosexual.

Dennis | 03.15.07 07:05 PM

I know these must right-wing conservatives making all these comments regarding Mrs. Bill Clinton, but wait that must make God a Right-Wing Consevative if I follow normal liberal logic and common sense.

Richard | 03.15.07 07:05 PM

How sad that theology is used to determine the composition of our secular military. I wish the armchair theologians and generals on this site would pay more attention to their own lives and less to their opinions

Andy F | 03.15.07 07:06 PM

What shocks me are peoples' comments. Such hatred. It is so sad.

Pam | 03.15.07 07:06 PM

California moves its primary up today, and Hillary decides to court the gay vote.

Hi | 03.15.07 07:07 PM

Its pretty over simplistic to argue that if homosexuality is not immoral, then, by implication, it must be moral. Thats moronic. Is picking a red car over blue immoral? No. Does that make it moral? no. Some issues are not moral binaries.

Z H | 03.15.07 07:12 PM

She needs to apologize for having her husband pardon terrorists to help her in her first election.

JR Ewing | 03.15.07 07:12 PM

Appears she may be doing a classic "Clintonista" parsing of words. Likely, when pressed on this issue, she will say that the Bible indicates that being a homosexual in and of itself is not a sin, only the actual commission of a homosexual act would be sinful, or immoral. Bet this is her fallback position!!

Bibberino | 03.15.07 07:16 PM

does anyone believe anything Hilary says? No, because everything she says is calculated to manipulate public opinion and further her agenda, which is promoting herself and her husband. There is no real person there, just lying pols. They are just grifters. Electing her husband twice was a mistake and electing her once would be worse. Fool us once...

Real American | 03.15.07 07:22 PM

Hillary is popular for the same reason that Paris Hilton is popular. She's on TV!
Her banalities and cowardice don't seem to matter, in this age of celebrity.

Joe Mack | 03.15.07 07:24 PM

Right on Hillary. It took her long enough, but at least somebody had the spine to tell the religious bigots that homosexuality ISN'T immoral.

Hey kids, we're here, we're queer...and you better get used to it.

david | 03.15.07 07:25 PM

1) It's been obvious ever since Bill Clinton got backstabbed on "don't ask don't tell" just after its announcement that this wouldn't work well. And everybody including Hillary recognizes that her attempt at healthcare reform failed. So is it pandering or throwing someone under a bus for her to now accept these truths 14 years later?

2) Hillary and others are running for President to propose and execute laws, to run the country, not to pronounce moral judgment on people. If I go into a pharmacy for a morning after pill, I don't care what the person behind the counter thinks - I want the pill and a "have a nice day". Anyone asking for more from the candidates is asking for more lying and pandering, as well as pushing government towards tasks and judgments that it shouldn't be involved in at the expense of ones it should be.

3) Hillary is a good bean counter, a "list maker" as she refers to it. I'm not looking for a "rock star" - I'll buy an arena ticket for that. I'm not looking for a "maverick" - that will always be James Garner, not some poser. I want someone boring, a policy wonk, someone who thinks reading position papers is good bedtime reading, who thinks balancing the books and being careful about how far you commit are just good common sense. I'm pretty amazed by how much hatred Hillary's every move has generated here. Fancy that, she said she's "very proud of the gays and lesbians [she knows] who perform work that is essential to our country, who want to serve their country". Pride in gays and lesbians. And she's attacked viciously. God forbid that a Democrat might want to avoid giving more sound bites to Fox news and the Corner. Which leads me to point 4:

4) We're headed for a debacle. Over-extension, arrogance. Look at what's happening in the Senate - pushback, stagnation, gridlock. Who's the poster boy on the left? Edwards? The guy was against the war because a position man told him to be? Who has now apologized for that so now he's a hero? Or Barack Obama, who has 2 years of national political experience? I can only imagine how the Republican media machine will play with him if it gets serious - right now they're only batting him around a bit like a caught mouse. I certainly don't have a 100% record on predictions, but in trashing Hillary, I don't see Edwards or Obama ascendant - I see Chuck Hagel. Okay, he probably wouldn't be as corrupt as the current President, but his policies are not exactly the ones I'd like to see for 4-8 more years. Anyway, y'all go and be idealistic and uncompromising, forget that the President *should* be President for all the people, not just the half you agree with or the other half - make the candidates dance the tightrope trying to balance stupid unnecessary positions and proclamations - what's their favorite food, their favorite baseball team - take away their slack to finesse difficult, controversial issues - and see if we can blow another Presidential election. Yeah, the Bush scandals and fatigue give us a great boost up, but a clean Republican outside of the scandal mill isn't to be dismissed lightly. Caveat whiner.

Desider | 03.15.07 07:28 PM

Bill Clinton pardoned terrorists to help Hilary get the Puerto Rican vote in her first New York Senate race. Despite her claim that she disagreed with Bill, it is obvious that she was trying to have her cake and eat it too by having Bill take the blame while she reaped the benefit. Let’s not forget that Bill and Hillary sold his presidency as a co-presidency (“You get two for the price of one”). Reporters need to ask her if she now regrets having her husband p